How do I date men when I hate men?
Haters, dating in the pandemic is exhausting and I’m over it!
Welcome to We Hate It Here, your weekly guide to making life suck a little less... made ever the more possible by having a new President *deep sigh of relief*. Thanks for reading. Today, we hear from someone who has had enough with dating, particularly dating men. A pandemic is already hard enough as it is, why does dating men have to be such a letdown? Let’s get into it!
It’s a new year, but we’re facing a lot of the same ol’ shit. Do you have a tough problem that could use some third-party poking and prodding? Not sure how to tackle your goals in 2021? Talk to us about whatever is making you hate it here by writing us at: wehateithereletters@gmail.com.
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Hi Haters,
I found this newsletter through your very accurate tweet. And that tweet is why I’m writing to you. Because dating as a straight, (millennial) woman was already hard, and now amplify that times a billion by the pandemic.
My theory is: There are way more single women who have their sh*t together than there are single men. Camille, your tweet is the *chef’s kiss* perfect example.
I know dozens of women my age who are simply incredible. Beautiful, smart, interesting, have worked through their problems in therapy, enjoy hobbies, build communities, help others—the total package. And the number of men I know who similarly have it together is…uh… a handful of my friend’s husbands.
The “good ones” really do seem to be taken or nonexistent. And you need not think I’m not being picky. I really am just looking for someone kind, progressive and looking for commitment. It shouldn’t be this hard.
Or maybe I’m crazy thinking this? It certainly makes things feel bleak, and the current circumstances do a good enough job of that already.
Sincerely,
Single Sally (just RSVP’d to my 4th virtual wedding)
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(Reader note: We use LW to denote “letter writer.”)
Kendall: This RESONATES!
Camille: Yeah honestly, how dare this letter writer get inside my brain! I've had all of these exact thoughts before. You and I have talked about this, for sure.
Kendall: I mean this is the thing we talk about maybe the most?
Camille: Haha probably!
Kendall: There are two main threads I see here. One is: how do I find a good man when it feels like there are none out there for me? And the other is: how do I date in a pandemic? Which should we start with?
Camille: I'm eager to get at the "where are the good men" question because I feel like I have a few points to clarify (heh).
I was (pleasantly? disappointedly?) surprised at how much my tweet resonated with people because while it was a little flippant and hyperbolic, I see that a lot of people understood the very real and problematic issue behind it, which is that patriarchy hurts EVERYONE.
Kendall: It seemed that even men really agreed with your *tweet heard round the world*!!!
Camille: When male humans grow up in a system that tells them they can't process or express their emotions, they become emotionally stunted people, and that has rippling effects on all the relationships in their lives, especially the romantic relationships they do (or don't) develop with women. I know the letter writer knows this, but I think it just bears repeating that the huge roadblock here isn't "men," but patriarchy.
Kendall: Yes, definitely!! I have a hard time with men as a whole unit. I feel really angry when I think about the global harm committed against women by men. But when I engage with men individually, it feels different. It doesn't feel like how I think about men globally.
It's easy to get caught up in thinking that all men are bad when systematically that's what it *feels* like. When I break it down to the individual level, I can see that each individual guy I'm interacting with is struggling with the same system I'm struggling with.
Camille: For me, that's a helpful distinction to make so that I can at once name and express the righteous anger I feel when men treat me and other women shittily, but also recognize the humanity and value in the individual men I meet. And like, this isn't necessarily a solution to the question of how to find a good man, but I do think being able to name the systemic dynamic can bring a measure of psychic peace.
Kendall: But to the LW's credit, I think she's really hit the nail on the head. It can feel like women “have it all together” because that's what society expects of us. And honestly, I think it’s also because being together is what women value when that might not be exactly what men value, so we are each living up to our own standards but perhaps those don’t always match.
Camille: I do get bummed out when I see these patriarchal traits -- selfishness, unwillingness to commit, etc. -- manifest in a guy I'm getting to know. It's just so hard to separate the individual from the water we're all swimming in.
Kendall: Certainly. It’s beyond frustrating.
To change it up a little bit here, I want to talk about dating in the pandemic. Don't get me wrong, I think the panny is bleak in a LOT of ways, in most ways. But I do actually think that it's changed the dynamics of app dating for the better.
I think what we are getting at is that in order to psychically get out of the "all men are bad" or "there are no good men" zone, you need to actually be talking individually to men. And dating them. And absolutely that is exhausting, but right now you have a total excuse to do it all from the comfort of home.
You can actually just *talk* to guys. There is no pomp and circumstance. You don't have to wear your best outfit. You don't have to worry about pressure to do anything you don't want to do. You don't have to worry about trusting a complete stranger. You can literally just talk to someone from your house. And I think more and more people have learned in this pandemic, that life is pretty freaking hard. And it's really lonely to be alone. So I think the number of people out there looking to just connect is higher than usual. The pressure is also just so low which I think makes it easier to have real conversation and actually get to know someone from a dating app.
I think the ways in which the dating scene puts pressure on men and women aren't great and ultimately isn't that helpful in finding something actually real.
Camille: Oh your perspective is really interesting. I totally agree with what you said about the pandemic taking the pressure off and the ability to be able to see this as an opportunity to simply talk to people. I've come to a conclusion about pandemic dating -- and really modern dating-- that's kind of the opposite.
Kendall: Ok go for it.
Camille: When I reflect on what frustrated me in trying to date during lockdown, it's similar to what has at times frustrated me about online dating in my 20s in general, which is that these apps present us with people devoid of context. Now, this isn't to say that I'm judging people who use dating apps or swearing them off myself— I’m still in the game. But I think it can be helpful to recognize this shortcoming. Right now, "meeting people" is just being presented with a parade of faces and words without context. When I think about other more analog ways that couples have gotten together—in college, in church, through a sports league, hell, even on vacation —there’s always some underlying context, some level of community to set the stage. I really think this aspect of community is so important in establishing any relationships, but especially romantic ones. And obviously finding community is more difficult in a pandemic, but I don't think it's impossible.
Kendall: I totally agree with your assessment. I think my perspective is that the pandemic has made app dating better. But altogether, I hate app dating.
Camille: One of the many parts of "here" that I hate. Lol.
Kendall: Lol. Too true. It also just sounds like the LW is honestly exasperated. I don't think you can date well from that kind of place. I think I might recommend a break. Because you're right, LW. This is a lot of effort, especially in a pandemic. And if it's not fun, I would maybe hold off on it for a bit. You might make decisions that you otherwise wouldn't if you had more energy.
Camille: Definitely. The energy you bring to dating does have an impact. if you're dating from a place of exhaustion, you aren't likely to find what you want.
I do think it's good, though, to hold onto that desire to find a partner. It's something that can be clarifying and positive even if you're not actively dating. A sort of personal lighthouse.
Kendall: I also think timelines matter too, unfortunately. I might recommend dating older if you're looking for someone more "together." Women have harder timelines because of literal biology. So men are typically more chill about dating seriously until they get older.
Camille: Yeah, there's a whole list of reasons why that's kind of messed up too, but we simply don't have the time lol.
Kendall: We do not!
I also want to note that you do not have standards that are too high, even if people tell you that. I think standards are more about fit and what good love looks like than anything else and that’s such a common way we blame and shame women for being alone. You absolutely deserve someone you actually want to be with. That’s not a bad thing.
Camille: I do want to just again return to this idea of community and say that maybe the best place to attract the values you want is by just living them out with other people. Figure out the things that are important to you, and find like-minded humans who are doing those things.
Kendall: I hear this, but I’ve tried to build a lot of community in my day in NYC. I tried to go to church to find guys, improv to find guys. But everywhere I went.... all women. I also work in a female-dominated industry. So this doesn't ALWAYS work.
Camille: I totally hear that. Yeah, I guess this isn’t a foolproof strategy; there's not a guarantee that you're going to meet a man doing these things who you're romantically attracted to, I think it at least improves your odds.
Kendall: I believe it's a numbers game, mixed in with a little bit of fate.
Camille: Yeah, I think a good amount of it is out of our control, which is frustrating!
Kendall: And I think it takes a lot of energy. So I recommend replenishing your reserves and then setting yourself up for success with a goal of I'll go on X number of first dates. And then just make it happen for yourself.
Camille: 100%. It's this mix of owning your power, and your right to get the type of partner you deserve, while also recognizing these forces like patriarchy and fate that are bigger than any one person...
Kendall: ...and knowing when to take yourself out of the dating game and when to give it your all.
Camille: I don't want to end on a cheesy note of saying "your right person is out there!" because frankly, I don't know that, and I get annoyed when people say that to me. But I do fully believe that peace and fulfillment in relationships is possible for you, LW.
Kendall: Unfortunately, we are both stuck in the same bad system you're stuck in so we can only say that we'll hold hope for you if you hold it for us.
Sending love to you, LW!
Want to connect with us more? Follow Camille here and here. Follow Kendall here and here.